Transcript of The Auction Wally Show - Podcast #1
Aired 11/19/2007
More info: http://www.auctionwally.com/
INTRO CHANT
Hey there, this is Walt Kolenda, aka AuctionWally, and you’re listening to the very first episode of the AuctionWally show, where I’ll be covering the auction world online and off, marketing in general and self-branding. If that sounds like a lot to cover, it is. If it sounds like I need help, I do. If you think you can make this show better, you can. You see I hope you like this show enough to contribute to future episodes. You can do that by emailing me at walt@auctionwally.com and posting a comment to the blog where you found this podcast. You can also find me at http://www.auctionwally.com and check out my online appraisal blog at http://auctionwally.blogspot.com/.
For my first episode I guess I’ll start off with a quick introduction about myself, once I get that out of the way you won’t have to listen to it again. As I mentioned, I’m a licensed Massachusetts auctioneer, with 25 years experience in the auction and antiques business. I started out years ago in the business as a picker. A picker is somebody that finds the antique or collectible the very first time. In other words, they’re the ones that dig in the barns, the basements and the attics and then bring those items to the auction block and antique shops. To me, there’s simply no better way to learn the auction and antiques business than as a picker. A good picker is a great source of knowledge. And often knows more about the antiques they’re handling than the so-called experts or the auctioneer themselves. In my opinion, pickers just don’t get the credit they deserve in the antiques world. After all, without them, many of the wonderful antiques that come across the auction block might be left to rot and ruin in some damp basement or exposed barn. So if you ever have the privilege of meeting one of these individuals, and they are rare to come by these days, shake their hand and look in the back of that truck., because you never know what you might find. Oh, and pickers usually only take cash.
While paying my dues as a picker, I would run out of good items quickly and found myself in need of fresh stock far too often. The problem was that because pickers usually sell at the bottom of the food chain, their stock gets snapped up quick by savvy dealers. A good picker has no problem selling, their challenge is continually finding fresh inventory. Every business has its’ rub and this would be the pickers.
I presented this problem to several of the dealers I was supplying. One of them suggested I try attending Gus William’s auction in Westmoreland, NH. My life was changed forever. If I thought picking was the life, the world of auctions was that life among royalty. I took to auctions like a fish to water.
Now I’m not saying that Gus thought I was the brightest light in the auction barn, but he knew I was a hard worker and it wasn’t long before he asked me to become employed part-time as a runner. A runner is someone that brings the item up to the auctioneer, displays it to the crowd and delivers it to the buyer or brings it to a checkout area.
I quickly learned that running had other advantages. I got to see a lot of the items in the auction barn early. And there was something about handling an item physically that makes you learn about it in ways you can’t otherwise.
Working two nights weekly at Gus’s auction meant that I was now handling a thousand items or more a month. Not only that, I was getting first-hand knowledge of how people bid, what the crowd wanted, what kind of items got multiple bids, and which only got one bid, which items always had the same bidders, etc.
I absorbed all this like a sponge and tucked it away for future use when I would make my rounds later during the week as a picker. I now realized there was a serious career opportunity in this business for me.
Just as a side note, if you’re ever at an auction and have a few questions, but the auctioneer can’t be found or is too busy to approach, look for a runner. They can be a wealth of inside information.
A few weeks after working for Gus an antique co-op opened up across the street from his auction barn. It was called The Christmas Tree Shop and I started renting a booth there. I did well for the first few months or so but quickly grew tired of it. I never was one with a lot of patience to wait around for something to sell. Although, it was nice to get a retail price for something once in a while. I soon found myself cleaning out my booth and bringing it to auction. The Christmas Tree Shop is still there in Westmoreland NH on rt. 12 and it’s a great co-op that has done well over the years by treating dealers and customers like family. If you ever get a chance to get out that way, stop in and say hi to Larry and Jan and tell them Walt Kolenda sent you (they don’t know me as AuctionWally).
The realization that retail wasn’t for me was an obstacle out of the way that allowed me to work even harder in the auction field. I started picking more fervently. I got better at it and my consignment checks at Gus’s were getting bigger.
That’s when Gus asked me to be his auction pusher. I’m not quite sure if it’s because he noticed my improvement or he noticed I wasn’t going to go away, but I became his full-time pusher. A pusher is kind of the head runner and decides what the other runners are going to display when. A good pusher at the right auction is important to have because timing at any auction is everything.
I’d gotten to the point where I could read the crowd pretty well. So let’s say for example that two people were bidding hot and heavy on costume jewelry and one wanders off to the snack bar during a short lull. As a pusher, I’d see this and direct the runners to hold off on the jewelry until I’d see the auctioneer had regained the attention of the lost lamb.
I now often push my own auctions right from the auction block seamlessly while auctioning. This is one of the invaluable benefits of having started out on the bottom of the food chain.
During the next few years, I started to raise a family. With that responsibility, I made the mistake of taking on “regular” jobs for a few years. I wasn’t cut out for that world. I think I mentioned that earlier. And I found myself back on the auction circuit full time.
Upon my re-entry to the auction business, I took a leap and got my New Hampshire’s auction license after graduating from the Yankee School of Auctioneering in Concord, NH. I held a few auctions right after getting my license, but decided to make my immediate living getting a better footing in the business before trying to make my living as a full-time auctioneer. Basically, I was a picker again. But with a little more knowledge and an auction license. Oh yeah, and the threat of the real world hanging over my head for due or die motivation.
Later on I got my Massachusetts license and now reside in Mass and maintain my Massachusetts auction license.
After several years of grounding myself, I found something many of you have found as well -a company called eBay. Another big change for me. It was obvious to me that the impact eBay would have on the auction world would be phenomenal. I learned it’s system and jumped in head first. It was eBay ironically, that allowed me to start my own auction business in a lucrative way.
My live auction customer base is out in Western and Central Mass and wherever I’m called to do an on-site or special event auction. Those are the types of auctions I usually run - antiques estate auctions, specific on-site auctions and fundraisers.
In the last eight years I’ve taken what I’ve learned about the new technology, the auction business in general and eBay and I’ve incorporated it into an online presence which I’m excited about expanding. A big part of that expansion, is this show you’re listening to right now. And I hope you’ll become an active participant in future shows and that you tell a few friends. You can participate in this show by emailing me at walt@auctionwally.com. I welcome any information requests, comments, or general input that you may have. And that’s at walt@auctionwally.com.
So what I’ll do with each pod cast is I’ll start off with news in the auction and marketing world, I’ll move along to the feature of that show, and then I’ll end up with auction and marketing tips. For now, this introduction will serve as the “news” section of this show. So let’s move along to the feature.
I’ve decided to make the first feature of this show appropriately enough, on hiring an auctioneer. Now I love auctions because, to me, they’re the most democratic type of economy. And saying that auctions are actually an economy is not a mis-statement. I really mean, they are their own economy.
You see, within an auction there is currency, both monetary and no monetary. For example the trust of fellow dealers is a form of currency that has great value. As well as the integrity of the estate, the lot being sold, and the crew handling it. Marketing, promotion, etc. All of these things didn’t have any monetary value until the shape of the auction took place around it, designating them an abstract form of currency.
Then, an economy needs markets, right? There are enough flea markets and antique shops in this world to keep an endless supply of auctioneers hopping. And there are not really an awful lot of auctioneers.
And interest, an economy needs that, no? I mean, if a good portion of the world isn’t interested in playing ball, then any economy would collapse. Let’s face it, one man’s trash has been another man’s treasure since one cave man threw out a stick and another one fashioned it into jewelry for his cave girl. So we know enough people are willing to play ball.
Now what you may ask, does this have to do with hiring an auctioneer? Well, everything. You see, whether you’re hiring an auctioneer to oversee a charity event, or you want to liquidate grandma’s estate, you’re asking someone to do a very big and important job. Now, many of you reading this may know that. But a common belief among a lot of people is that the only thing an auctioneer needs to do is talk fast. And that’s just not true.
In the case of an estate, when you’re looking to hire an auctioneer you’re asking someone to be responsible for a good portion, if not all, of the accumulated wealth of the deceased loved one.
Or maybe you’re in need of a fundraising auction and the event is going to be 50% or more of your organization’s yearly budget. Not every auction is this important, but many are. Ask yourself how important your auction is to you. Then decide if you need a rubber-jawed junk dealer or if you want someone that understands and respects your situation.
An auctioneer of any caliber can sum up any job at your first meeting and give you a very clear cut idea which direction you should go in.
The last sentence would be the meat and potatoes of this segment then. What you are most likely wanting to know, is how to tell if you have an auctioneer that’s right for you and will treat you fair.
Important things you have to decide when choosing an auctioneer are:
Is the auctioneer you’re speaking to available on the date you’re hoping to hold the auction? Although a good auctioneer can get a sale ready in a few weeks, auctions are often booked months, sometimes up to year in advance. Especially the big fundraising and charity events. Therefore, they may be busy on the date you need them. Let them know on the phone the time frame you are looking at. It may save you and the auctioneer a wasted meeting.
Do they even do the kind of auction you want to run? Most auctioneers are flexible. But each has his or hers forte. Mine is antiques, collectibles, estate and fundraising auctions. Some auctioneers only do heavy equipment or real estate. You get the idea. This can also be found out over the phone. And when you’re calling an auction hall, if you reach anyone other than the auctioneer, ask when the auctioneer can be reached in person. Unlike many other businesses, there are not very many questions an auctioneer’s assistant can answer over the phone with much accuracy.
So, you’ve decided to meet. If it’s a big job, and the auctioneer is late for the first meeting, without a rock-solid excuse, don’t hire them. While this may sound overly harsh, it’s not at all. You see, the most important talent an auctioneer needs to have is a great sense of timing. It is the most crucial element to reading a crowd of buyers. And reading a crowd of buyers is the auctioneers most important job. I’ve seen people auction off antiques that know nothing about antiques. Yet they can get more money than the guy from the Antiques Road Show because they know how to work a crowd to just the right tune. Of course, it’s better to have an auctioneer that knows the merchandise and can read a crowd. But I’ll take a good sense of timing over anything else. If they can’t make it on time for the very first meeting, what does that say for their sense of timing? Usually, late auctioneer equals bad auctioneer.
So you’ve met. Now the auctioneer is looking over the estate. How is he or she handling the merchandise? With respect or nonchalance? Do they seem to know what they’re talking about? Ask a lot of questions, such as, “Does he or she purchase estates outright?”, “How many auctions have they called?”.
Be careful with anyone that has called less than twenty-five auctions. In most cases, you want a veteran auctioneer. Do they have references? Do they have an auction coming up that you could attend? Ask how much certain things are worth. The key here is to listen for someone that knows price ranges, and probably won’t commit to firm prices. Anyone that starts guaranteeing they can get you this for that or that for this is either full of bull or doesn’t have that much experience yet. This is a good sign that someone may be overanxious to get work and will say what they think you want to hear. Any smart auctioneer is going to answer your value questions by saying something like “I’m going to do the best I can because the more you make the more I make”.
Which gets us to commission fees. Commission fee ranges usually work somewhere in the area of 25-30% charged to you with a 10% buyer’s premium. The rule of thumb is, the pricier the estate, the less commission percentage charged. Please realize, there are many commission fee factors such as, who is responsible for the clean-out of the property, who pays for the ads, who rents the tent if any is needed, is it an auction hall or onsite, is there trucking involved, etc.
The auctioneer fee structure for charity and fundraising event varies among auctioneers. Some prefer to work on a flat fee while others prefer to work on a commission. I prefer the commission method because I’m a strong believer in performance-based pay when it comes to auctioneering. That being said, the percentage on a fundraising or charity auction is significantly less than that of an estate or liquidation-type auction , with 5-10% being the average.
Red flags should go up if the commission fee or flat rate fee that the auctioneer offers to work for seems too low. Ask yourself why and how someone in this position might try to make up for the lost revenue. There are sharks in every business, but usually they give off signs if you know what to look for. I don’t mean to give the impression that auctioneers are any less honest than people in any other profession. But they are often in a very powerful position with your assets. So know that.
When and how does the estate or organization get paid? The standard is around 14 business days. Ask every question you can think of. It’s an important test. If it seems like I’m asking you to throw a lot at this person, you’ve just met, that’s because I am. They can handle it if they’re a professional. A good auctioneer deals with up to hundreds of people at the same time, trying to sell an entire room full of people something, two to four-hundred times a night. If they can’t answer more than a few nagging questions without getting rattled, I’d look for another auctioneer if possible.
If you found someone to work with, make sure that they are willing to give you a clear, easy to understandable contract. Never hire an auctioneer without a contract.
Well, that’s it for the feature. I welcome any questions and comments you may have. You can send those to walt@auctionwally.com.
Now on to the tips section of our show. I’ll start with one of the questions I’m most often asked which is, what makes something an antique. Well, the quick answer to that is, 100 years of age. But what most people really want to know is, what makes something a valuable antique. What makes it desirable and saleable? And there are a few factors that determine that. One being scarcity. A few others are supply and demand, and condition is very important. As well as originality. And the amount or extent to which something is very unusual. The antique world, much like the fashion world, consists of people that have a pride of ownership and truly desire to have something different and something unique.
Another thing I’m asked is what do I consider the best antique overall on the market today, the best investment category. I would have to say that without a doubt, furniture. Now if you’ve been to any auctions at all in the past three or four years, you know that the antique furniture market is down very low. I’m selling oak Victorian dressers and tables and chairs for about a third of what I used to sell them for at auction. There are a few reasons for this. A lot of people are downsizing their homes, there’s a glut of it on the market as of late, and I think eBay has been responsible for some of it because dealers have been looking for smalls to tuck in an envelope and ship across the country. So furniture has taken quite a hit.
But the classics always go up in value. And good antique furniture will come around in the cycle again. And when that cycle comes around again, the ones that bought this classic antique furniture at super prices at country auctions and local auction houses all over the United States will be extremely happy with their purchases. Because don’t forget well bought is half sold.
Now I’m going to share one of my favorite tips that will assure you get some great deals, if you’re persistent and beat the bushes a bit. But this is going to be our secret, so don’t go telling everybody. And that is, to shop out of market. That’s right. You see, antique dealers and auctioneers often buy in big lots and buy estates. Usually a dealer will specialize in one area. But if they buy the whole estate, they buy the whole estate and they pick up everything. In fact, most of the time the dealers that buy lots like this are often forced to take everything. It’s usually an all or none deal. So, an antique dealer who specializes in beautiful antique furniture will often find himself with lots of antique books, postcards, costume jewelry or other items he doesn’t specialize in. Now, he’s not going to give these away for nothing because he knows they’re worth something. But he sure is going to give some smoking deals on them in order to assure some liquidity and turn his cash over so he can invest it in another nice furniture lot that he is more interested in.
Now you can establish a good report with dealers like this by leaving your name and number after the first time you purchase such a lot. There’s a good chance they’ll call you again when they buy out another estate and it has some items that they think you might be interested in. But a word of advice, if they do call you again, head up to the shop, as quick as you can with cash in hand. Because this merchandise is out of their normal realm of interest they’ll most likely be looking to turn it over again as fast as they can just as they did the first time they sold it to you.
Well, that’s about it for the tips section. And that looks like I have my first show in the can. Thanks a lot for sticking around. I hope that some of you email me with questions and future requests for shows at walt@auctionwally.com. And if you have a website or a blog, mention it in the email. I’ll be happy to post it in the show notes and link to it for you. This is Auction Wally signing off reminding you to attend an auction this week, because it’s the only marketplace where you’re the boss.
END CHANT
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