Transcript of - The Prosperity Podcast - You have nothing to be ashamed of, Show #45
Aired - 2/7/2008
More info - Prosperity Secrets
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IRA: Welcome to THE PROSPERITY PODCAST show 45. The purpose of THE PROSPERITY PODCAST is to help our listeners live a better life through the use of the Law of Attraction and related tips and techniques. We view prosperity as both material and spiritual. The search for fulfillment is varied and each week we examine as aspect of this quest by sharing our accumulated understanding and experience. This week we discuss the twin topics of shame and conceit. Admittedly, we spend a lot more time on shame. Originally I was going to play the Bob Dylan song, Disease of Conceit, on the show. He talks about delusions of grandeur. And that is a key concept. It is important to have a healthy self-esteem and to feel good about the things you believe in and do in life. But when these feelings of value and importance become exaggerated to the point that you act like others are inferior, then you have a big problem. Keep it in perspective. Ask for advice. Listen and value the opinion of others and you can stay humble and avoid this issue. On the other hand, feelings of shame and inferiority are more insidious as they cause us to withdraw into a protective shell. These feelings are the other side of the coin of self-centeredness. We must always strive to realize that our problems are not unique. We are unique individuals, for sure, but we share our weaknesses with everyone else. My daughter’s elementary school had a slogan, “Everybody knows something and nobody knows everything”. It’s loosely translated from the Spanish. It’s the same with our emotional life. We are looking for balance. Our shame and our fame are different sides of the golden coin that is us. We are all created equal. Our outstanding talents and our abilities are gifts from God. Sharing our blessings is our gift to God and to our fellow men. Hiding behind shame or arrogance is suffocating to our true nature and denies us our true gifts. Julia gives us exercises to learn to accept shame and to go ahead in life and learn to truly be yourself.
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JULIA: Hi Ira.
IRA: Hi Julia. I’m laughing because this is a subject I thought of covering, but apparently I didn’t even notice, I’m so ashamed, I didn’t even notice that Chapter 9 of YOUR PRESENCE IS ENOUGH--
JULIA: My second book.
IRA: Your second book, well that’s probably why I didn’t notice, I never read your second book.
JULIA: What!? (Laughing) Anyway folks, we’re talking about shame today. Because it’s actually come up for a lot of our listeners that have written to me and Ira.
IRA: Well that’s how it came up in the first place. We’re not going to mention her name or any personal details about her, because she requested we don’t, but someone volunteered for coaching and then withdrew. And one of the reasons had to do with shame.
JULIA: I really want to go into this a little bit today. It’s a subject that a lot of us don’t choose to think about, we don’t want to think about it, it’s uncomfortable. But oh my god, if we can clear shame from ourselves, it is so hugely freeing, it will transform everybody’s life. And we will just be so much freer and lighter. So it’s really worth listening to and going in to. So, please keep listening everyone because I don’t know anybody that doesn’t have some shame. Not one single person on the planet has not had shame, has not experienced any humiliation, embarrassment, shame of some kin. There’s nobody.
IRA: And carries it with him or her.
JULIA: Exactly. So I think what we’ll do is we’ll start to look at the different components of shame and as I talk about my own experience of it, maybe it will trigger some in Ira.
IRA: Well, maybe.
JULIA: And in everybody listening. Because, again, this is something that we tend to stuff. The first thing I want to start with is a quote and don’t know who wrote this, “Shame is like a mushroom, it grows in the dark.”
IRA: That’s wonderful.
JULIA: Isn’t that great? I love that, because that just says it all. We stuff our shame into the depths of our being. We keep it in the dark.
IRA: Well also, like mushrooms, most of the growth of a mushroom is underground.
JULIA: Yes.
IRA: The part that we eat and see is only a small part of the plant.
JULIA: Yeah. It’s also a created emotion. It’s an illusion that there’s something we can do that’s wrong and there’s no possibility of any forgiveness. So no matter how much we say, “I’m sorry” it’s not enough. And that’s a pretty contracted place.
IRA: Yeah.
JULIA: As I say that, you kind of go “Whoa”. It feels contracted. Ouch, ouch, ouch. Think about it, when we feel someone’s shamed us, we totally contract. It’s like drawing our energy in and hanging our tail between our legs. Then what we do is we shy away from risking being shamed again, so we seek to protect ourselves and that results in forfeiting authentic expression and our real power. That’s what we want to avoid. So what we’re going to do today is look at shame in depth. And we’re going to start off with humiliation and embarrassment.
IRA: Okay.
JULIA: Because most of us have experienced that at some point in our lives.
IRA: You know, I have my own shame issues, which maybe our listeners will be lucky enough to hear later on. But I’m talking about a cultural issue here. I’ve talked about this often with my wife Stephie who’s from the Chinese culture and they so often hide things…
JULIA: They are the worse for it actually. For them, shame is worse than death.
IRA: Well I’ll give you an example. I have this friend Jim, he’s a wonderful friend. He’s been a friend for a long time. He’s planning on coming to visit this weekend. And Stephanie said to me, “What day is he coming exactly?” I said, “Well, I think Saturday.” And she said, “Well you have to find out exactly.” And I said, “What difference does it make?” And she said, “Because I have to clean the floor.”
JULIA: Right, it has to look right.
IRA: I said, “You’re talking about Jim. You’re talking about a guy, we used to rebuild Volkswagen bus engines together.”
JULIA: He’s a good buddy. He doesn’t care. But you see, for her and her culture, to have everything looking good is very, very important. Saving face, that’s a very Chinese thing.
IRA: Yes. This is a battle I’m not going to win.
JULIA: No, you’re not. Just let her clean the bloody floor.
IRA: I offered to buy one of those floor-cleaning robots. But she won’t have it. She’s sure it won’t do as good a job as she would. And what I’m getting at with that, is that she’s holding on, she’s not only holding on to her shame, but she’s not even letting herself expand into other areas. It’s the same thing as I’ve offered to pay for a cleaning service or a maid and she won’t have that, because she’s worried about them stealing. She sets up all sorts of barriers. I’m talking off the top of my head so if I sound like an idiot it’s fine, but we hold on to our shame in so many ways.
JULIA: So many ways.
IRA: And make our excuses and try, it’s a way of control.
JULIA: Yeah, and there’s a couple of strategies that we do. One is that we overcompensate. So what we do is we try to prove the world is wrong by becoming the overachiever or the one in control, and that’s what Stephanie does. That’s her strategy. So you just have to see it as such. We aim to be superior, you know? But the thing is, when that doesn’t work, we swing back to inferior and it starts this vicious cycle of wanting to win approval and then when we’ve lost approval we go to huge lengths to get it back.
IRA: Well that was part of my inspiration for this show today, the feeling superior.
JULIA: The conceit.
IRA: Yeah, the Bob Dylan, Bob Dylan inspired me, his song which we’re going to use, THE DISEASE OF CONCEIT. And that’s true, it’s the flip side--
JULIA: The flip side of shame is conceit. Exactly.
IRA: I’ve been to parties or met people where they talk in a superficial level about their cars, or about their house or about the deal their making or men often, it’s really embarrassing, they talk about their conquests. It is so irritating to listen to those people.
JULIA: Oh, absolutely.
IRA: It’s just like, SHUT UP! Who cares?
JULIA: Right, so that’s one thing we do. And the other strategy that happens is we do the opposite and we are convinced that we’re worthless so we hide and withdraw. And then we attract victim energy.
RIA: Right. And I wrote one of our listeners, who had a shame issue, that I wrote to, I wrote, I think I emailed you a copy of the story, about the woman friend of mine who is an activist who went to a presentation given by a doctor who did cosmetic breast surgery. And she went with a group of people and when the slide show came on all of the women in the group took off their tops. Then when the lights came on they said, “What about me doctor, do I need it? What about me?” And the women who had come there sincerely looked around and probably said, “I’m as good or better than the other people.” They brought it into the light and found out that of all the things to be ashamed of…breasts? Really?
JULIA: Yes. But that brings me on to body shame you see.
IRA: Same difference.
JULIA: Even really beautiful people, we have body parts that we dislike. We think we’ve got cellulite, we’re too fat, we’re too thin, we’ve got too small of breasts, too big of breasts, there’s all this stuff. We have a conclusion that our bodies are not okay. And they just don’t match this image we have of a perfect model. A lot of it could be that someone has criticized us in the past and helped to make us feel that way.
IRA: Yes. And you mentioned that on an earlier show, that you were criticized when you were young.
JULIA: Absolutely. I’ve been criticized many times around my body.
IRA: And as I’ve said on the show, “Julia’s hot.”
JULIA: Oh gosh. Shhh.
IRA: She has men following her around like a mother duckling with her babies.
JULIA: Yeah but some of that is because I’ve overcome feeling ashamed about my body. And so that energy then becomes attractive, as opposed to the opposite. And people feel that. Now one thing is nudity. I’m actually going today , when we finish our podcast, to a place called [xx] Hot Springs, where it’s a clothing-optional resort.
IRA: The sixties are alive and well at [xx] Hot Springs.
JULIA: They are. It’s a wonderful place. And a lot of people are very challenged at taking their clothes off in public. But for that’s been a really wonderful way of feeling comfortable with my body and feeling that it’s just okay to be naked and to be seen. I know that’s not something everybody would choose to do. But to at least examine how do you feel about your body? Is there a part of your body that you can’t accept? Or is there a part of your body that you feel is really ugly? And if that’s going on, and probably with most of the people listening that is going on for you, then I just suggest to practice sending love to that part of your body.
IRA: Send love.
JULIA: Just send love there. Even if you still have an opinion in your mind that part of you doesn’t look pretty or something, you can let that be so but still, send love to that part of your body. You can even use that Hawaiian blessing, “I’m sorry and I love you”. Really, the more you practice this, just this simple tool. Just say for example you’re not happy with your breasts and you’re a woman. Put your hand on your breast and say, “I’m sorry and I love you.” And do that every day and you will change.
IRA: Or me, because I’m a horndog I’ll say, “I’ll come over and do it for you.”
JULIA: No, no, no, we’re not going there Ira. We’re keeping this clean.
IRA: Oh, not like my dentist, okay.
JULIA: But really, if you do this regularly, you’ll find that it will start to change the way you feel about your body. So that’s one way we can start to shift the shame, the body shame.
IRA: And you know, I have a friend who is a therapist who works with abused and molested women, and many of her patients are severely overweight. Of course, they’re ashamed about what happened, which is most of the time not their fault at all. I would say all the time it’s not their fault because no man has the right to molest or abuse a woman. But, they carry their shame around and because it’s a body-related thing, they add on the weight to make themselves very unattractive. Which also ruins their health, it ruins their self-esteem, it ruins everything.
JULIA: Shame is the core of a lot of weight issues. If you don’t address your shame you’re never going to be able to lose weight and keep it off.
IRA: And be healthy.
JULIA: Because it’s the way you feel about yourself inside.
IRA: The goal here, as always, is to be healthy.
JULIA: Absolutely.
IRA: And if something is blocking you from being healthy, then get rid of it. It can be a slow process. But like we said last week, make that first step. You know, go out walking. Join a group, get that support. That’s another thing, the story I told about the women, is that whatever you’re ashamed of, you’re not the only person that has that issue.
JULIA: You’re not and that’s I guess why we’re doing this podcast today because there’s so many of us that have, well like you said, everyone has shame. And our shame can be in different arenas. The other big area of shame we haven’t talked about is shame of failure. We’re ashamed if we think we’re not good enough and we failed at something. We can even get addicted to this kind of shame. I have a friend, he would say he was a C student in school, he never really achieved any academic success and so he labeled himself as not bright and as some kind of failure.
IRA: Well I have something to encourage him.
JULIA: Well wait a minute, let me tell the story. What happened was, in his working world, he consistently started our strongly but would sabotage himself and get fired because on some level, although he felt ashamed of his failures, he was comfortable with them. And so he’d keep recreating it.
IRA: Right. I’m sure I do similar things. If I look at my stock portfolio which is about the same level now as it was 20 years ago, and at one point it was three or four times its value. What did I do to bring it back down? The comfort level.
JULIA: The sabotage there.
IRA: The sabotage. I mean fortunately that’s in my retirement account which is not something I’m probably ever going to touch because I’ll probably never retire, but it would have been nice to have a big nest egg there.
JULIA: Sure. And it’s okay, it is what it is. Now the other thing that sets us up is religious ideas. Because so often religions--
IRA: Don’t get me started.
JULIA: We’ll be very brief here because everyone knows what I’m talking about I’m sure. But religious ideals hold a picture of the perfect life that can not be emulated by an imperfect world, it just can’t be. So it sets us up for failure, guilt and self-judgment.
IRA: Or worse, I think worse as they say, in the after life. You’ll have pie in the sky when you die. That’s a lie.
JULIA: That’s a total cop-out folks. We’re here to do our clearing. Now one example of that is the ideal of a happy marriage. And I know people who have stayed in marriages for way too long because they feel that they will be judged as a failure and unworthy and not a good person by their religious organization, if they leave their marriage.
IRA: I have direct experience, because I am divorced.
JULIA: Right, so am I.
IRA: And I was married to my first wife for 20 years. So I gave it my best shot, right?
JULIA: Right.
IRA: And we went to therapy and one day the therapist said to me, “You’re always trying to find a way to forgive her. You’re always trying to find an excuse. You’re always trying to find this…don’t you think it’s time you just moved on?” This is one of the hardest, we’re always preaching you get something and you commit to it. A marriage is one of those things you commit to and you give it your best shot. But in your heart you know when it’s time to move on.
JULIA: Right, exactly. And have the courage to make that leap. So many people spend a long, long time feeling miserable in a situation that has outgrown them, or rather they’ve outgrown the situation.
IRA: For me, when I finally made that leap and I filed for divorce and I moved out and did that, I was so surprised at the number of people, of my friends, who said, “It’s about time.”
JULIA: It’s about time, I know, absolutely. So what we can do here is we can all write a list of all the times that we have felt the shame of failure. This is a really good exercise to do. And we might be able to identify some kind of pattern, and that’s great if we can become aware of that. And we can also work with our internal saboteur. And that’s important because, I have a whole process around working with saboteur. Have we done this in the podcast, do you remember? Working with saboteur?
IRA: I’m ashamed to say, that I don’t remember.
JULIA: We may not have done--
IRA: I think we have.
JULIA: Well anyway, it’s in my second book--
IRA: Your second book, YOUR PRESENCE IS ENOUGH.
JULIA: In Chapter One, there’s a whole process around working with the saboteur. If that’s something, for you guys listening, if you need to do, then you can order my book and check that out.
IRA: Oh, which reminds me, a little side announcement. Julia completed recording her first book 20 QUESTIONS.
JULIA: I did.
IRA: And I’m going to be editing it in the next week or two and then she’ll have to make some repair because I deleted part of one of the chapters.
JULIA: What!
IRA: But, but--
JULIA: You failed! Miserably.
IRA: But when you get that, maybe for Valentine’s Day,
JULIA: I’m joking.
IRA: It will all be totally ready. There’s a couple chapters up on our website already, for $1 download and as you said, you get credit for the whole book if you do the $1 downloads.
JULIA: But the whole book is coming, which is great.
IRA: The whole book is coming.
JULIA: And then the second book, with all these processes in that we’re talking about now, will be coming soon.
IRA: That’s good enough. She has a busy Spring, she’s traveling a lot.
JULIA: I do. But let’s go back to shame because there’s another issue that we haven’t looked at. And that is, sexual shame. And that’s another one pretty much every single person on the planet carries on some level or another.
IRA: Well, it’s the American specialty with our Puritan culture.
JULIA: American? Hey, you inherited it from us Brits, believe me. So, I know I’ve talked about this a little bit before.
IRA: I don’t know, my British girlfriend was wild.
JULIA: Well it doesn’t mean we’re not wild, it just means the way we feel about ourselves. I mean, she might have felt like she was being a slut for being wild and judged herself for that. For example,
IRA: I don’t know, she never judged herself for anything.
JULIA: Well fine, maybe she was healed of all sexual shame and then great, good for her. We need more people like that.
IRA: I grew up with that. There’s a story that I tell, I might have told it on an earlier podcast but I’ll give the abbreviated version. When I asked my father about the birds and the bees, and I was looking for explicit sexual information, because I was at that age, right? And my father told me, literally, about the birds and the bees. About flowers and pollination and eggs and hatching. And I said, “I know science. I want sex.” I’m sure my dad knew about this, there were three kids in the family, he must’ve figured some of it out. That is the level of shame about talking about sexual things that existed back then.
JULIA: And thank god it has changed. I mean, we’ve got Paris Hilton on the internet now, having it away. So things have changed a lot but still it hasn’t changed the basic way that we treat sex. We still treat it as this sacred cow of human experience where it’s so charged for us, if we can’t get it absolutely perfectly right, we judge ourselves as lacking. If only we could be just real and honest and just when we meet a new partner say, “Hey, you know what, I’ve got to tell you sometimes it’s hard for me to feel aroused.” Or, sometimes this goes on for me. And just be relaxed about it.
IRA: Well it’s also absolutely necessary in this day and age, when you meet someone, that you have to talk about your physical condition.
JULIA: You have to have the sexual disease talk. As I’ve said before in this podcast, I have herpes and that’s one of the things I’ve let go of my shame around. That reminds me to tell everybody, this is why I got into teaching about shame because when I first got herpes, I looked up in Louise Hay’s book YOU CAN HEAL YOUR LIFE and I saw that it said if you have herpes you have shame and guilt about your sexuality. And I didn’t think I had any, but I was so wrong. And like an onion I kind of peeled it back layer by layer by layer until I found a whole bunch of stuff that I had covered up. And it has made me a really powerful teacher of this work and helped other women talk about it and uncover their stuff. Because for me, just practicing sharing with girlfriends and in groups, about my shame, made me realize that it doesn’t have any hold on me anymore. It’s gone. Because I no longer feel that there’s something wrong with me for having herpes or for having all the other so-called defects that I thought I had. That’s gone. And it went through this process of talking, talking, talking, feeling compassion for myself and just sharing what I thought was a so-called secret. And again, what’s a secret? Secrets are held in stuff.
IRA: And also, the fact that when you bring it out then you can deal with it in a healthy way.
JULIA: And what I found was, people didn’t judge me for it. That was the myth, that people would judge me. And every time I’m with a new partner, and I have to have this little talk and say I have herpes, only once in the last 12 years has one guy said, “Oh, then I can’t be with you I don’t want to catch that.” Only once.
IRA: Well, you’re talking about guys.
JULIA: The point is that, for women listening, I really want to reiterate whatever stuff you think you might have going on with you, if you’re just upfront and honest about it you’ll find that if a man really cares about you he’s going to look at it.
IRA: You’ll find, where there’s a will there’s a way.
JULIA: In fact, he’ll find more connection with you because you’ve been honest and you’ve shared something intimate about yourself.
IRA: This is why I was talking about the conceited people that need to talk about their possessions. That’s not being intimate.
JULIA: It’s not. And they’re totally not connecting with somebody else by going to that level. We want to hear what’s in your deeper soul. What is it that you’re afraid of. You know, when I work with, we’re going to talk about Tantra next week, when I work with couples in Tantra one of the first things we do is talk about what are our fears, our sexual fears. Even though I have couples who come who have perhaps been with each other for 20 years, they haven’t expressed their feelings to each other. They’ve never gone there, ever. They’ve tried to hide it. And the tears that flow and the open-heartedness that happens when people actually sit together and talk about their innermost fears around sexuality, is incredible.
IRA: And this brings up the simple point that what you want, what you desire in your life, what you feel for yourself, there’s no need to be ashamed of. I know for myself that I was ashamed to be wealthy. Because I felt I didn’t deserve it. What made me better than a poor person? Well nothing actually makes me better than a person.
JULIA: There’s no one better than anyone else.
IRA: Yeah, so I avoided situations where I might make a lot of money. To some extent, we give this podcast, well, I would do it anyway. Oh…our gardener is back, isn’t this wonderful? Uh, at some point, Julia’s been talking to me and we’re probably going to do this, we’re going to start a private website which is going to be fee-based in some way. We’re working out the details.
JULIA: And it’s for people who want to have private coaching and have issues come up that really is not appropriate to talk about in the general podcast and we need to give them more attention. So we’re going to create a space for this.
IRA: Direct one on one attention and there’ll be special materials recorded for that as well.
JULIA: Right, we’ve got some really great stuff that we’d like to give people, but it’s maybe a little deeper than we go on the podcast.
IRA: For me, this is a major step to go to the point where I feel that what we produce is worth charging for.
JULIA: Well, it is worth charging for Ira. I feel totally good about it. I’m sure our viewers will agree. And will want to support us. So there it is. I’m declaring our worthiness.
IRA: It’s going to take a lot of our time to do the special site, so we need to be compensated for it. I’m dreaming of the day when I go into Bob, my wonderful boss, and say, “Bob, I’ve enjoyed the ten years here. You’ve been a fabulous boss. But I don’t have time to come here. My other stuff is taking up much more of my time.”
JULIA: That’s awesome. Hey, but before we close I just want to talk about transforming shame because let’s end on a positive note here with shame. So I’m going to read from my book because I’ve got a great paragraph on it and I want to share that with everybody.
Pushing shame away doesn’t work. Like other emotions, it is there to serve a purpose, to keep us safe or to help us behave appropriately. The problem is that we allow the contracted feeling of shame to engulf our emotional body and shut out our spirit, leaving us feeling disconnected, unworthy and powerless. It’s a great exercise to talk directly to the shame, see where it lives inside of us and ask what its job is. And then get its agreement to change jobs. As responsible adults it is our job to keep ourselves safe and behave appropriately. The shame can be transformed into a beacon of sensitivity that flashes out a warning if a situation is brewing where we need to tread carefully. In this way we can transmute our capacity to feel shame into a healthy signal for us to slow down, witness ourselves, and pay heed to those around us with clear communication.
Did you like that?
IRA: I like that.
JULIA: I thought that was cool. I wanted to share that with everybody.
IRA: My problem is I was thinking about what I would say next. And then I decided, I’m not going to say anything.
JULIA: Just leave it be. I think we’ve ended on a really wonderful note. And again, we’re happy to hear from any of you. I have a lot of exercises on clearing shame in YOUR PRESENCE IS ENOUGH. So if anybody wants to order the book, let me know and I’ll send it out.
IRA: Actually, there was one thing I wanted to say. I feel that there’s two levels of shame. There’s a public and a private level of shame. It’s like a political candidate. There are things that you feel if get out, will ruin your career. And there are things privately that you think if your partner or your family or your friends find out about they won’t be your friends anymore.
JULIA: They won’t love you anymore. It’s about love.
IRA: The one about the public shame, that’s an issue I’m not even going to go close to. But I find that a friend in need is a friend indeed. People who are close to you, who cannot accept you and your completeness and the way you are, where’s their value? That’s their shame. You know, that’s the old saying, “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.”
JULIA: Who do you choose to hang around with? Do you choose to hang around with people who accept you exactly the way you are? Warts and all. God knows we’ve all got a few of those.
: (Laughing) And other things I’m ashamed to talk about.
JULIA: Sounds good. Well thank you everybody for listening.
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IRA: Thank you for listening to THE PROSPERITY PODCAST show 45. Our opening song this week is a Bruce Springsteen composition, ALL THE WAY HOME, performed by Southside Johnny and the Asbury Jukes from their 1991 CD, BETTER DAYS. Our closing song is YOU’RE SO VAIN, by Carly Simon from her 1972 LP NO SECRETS, reissued on CD in 1990. Carly is a breast cancer survivor. Issues of shame may not just be harmful to your financial prosperity but can also be detrimental to your physical health. Don’t let shame of your body image or your age hinder you from getting prompt and appropriate medical attention, like Carly did. Having cancer is not a crime, nor getting a proper diagnosis or care. It’s simply suicidal to let these things go. From a spiritual perspective, our bodies are temples of the holy spirit and deserve to be given the full attention and care of a scared place. In future weeks we’ll have shows on the care and maintenance of your body, including next week’s show on Tantra, ie sexual health. We’ll have ones on exercise, healthy foods and so on.
Outside of the references to Julia’s books this week, there is one lone book reference to Louise Hays 1984 perennial best-seller YOU CAN HEAL YOUR LIFE. The quote about “Pie in the sky when you die” can be attributed to the song JOE HILL. But I got it from listening to my activist hero, Pete Seeger in concert many years ago. Pete is still active at age 88 having just played a concert near his home in New York with Ani DiFranco. Pete Seeger is another musician I would nominate as a national treasure. Our website is Prosperity Secrets our email is prosperity.secrets@gmail.com. Julia’s books are available on her website and our website. They are TWENTY QUESTIONS FOR ENLIGHTENED LIVING and YOUR PRESENCE IS ENOUGH. Each book is $18 and we pay tax in California and free shipping in North America. And we’ll give a $5 shipping credit elsewhere in the world. Also please note that each week now I’m putting a donation button smack dab in the middle of our website blog so we can collect money to fund our video project and all the other projects we have coming up. And, as always, the greatest favor you can do us is to tell your friends about our podcast. We invite all to listen. We value each and every listener and are very grateful you have let us be part of your lives. Thank you.
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